Ten years ago you were comparing Greece to a brothel. Now, this brothel seems to be on fire because of the crisis, are you happy?
Why should I be? I take no pleasure from such a justification. It was expected that it would all fall apart. It was already happening. Long before the economic bankruptcy, this country was emotionally, socially, morally and culturally bankrupt. What were the signs of bankruptcy?
All those things we were complaining about back then and for which we were accused of being naive: Greece of lifestyle magazines, Greeks spending their money on nightclubs, Greek studs dancing “zeibekiko” and then rushing to the openings of right-wing newspapers. It is this part of Greece falling to pieces today.
Common people, don’t they have their fair share of responsibility?
Sure they do! As we say, the fish stinks from the head downwards, in this case though, it also stunk from the tail up. Ordinary people were stealing from the tax office and the big wigs directly from the state’s pockets. There was a silent complicity. Then a scandal would be brought to light, things would turn nasty and they’d calm people down by throwing a bone to their direction – a small pay-rise, a benefit, pocket money for going clubbing together with our politicians. And for those who stayed home, there was always trash TV.
But now people are taking to the streets….
They are, because now it’s a matter of surviving. They ‘ve been asked to pay off a debt which is not theirs to pay. They took to the streets because they realized that while they were pocketing an extra 100 euros a month, others were stealing millions.
Does the scenario of economic bankruptcy scare you?
Not at all. On the contrary, I wish we went bankrupt. This would be an opportunity to start from scratch. To become alert, to demand different politicians, different ethos, a different Parliament.
“Let’s burn down this brothel-like Parliament!” is the mostly heard slogan in every protest these days. Shall we?
Well, let’s not! But let’s kick everyone out of there. All three-hundred of them! Let’s bring in new ones, set new rules. First of all we should ban ties. They are now associated with scum. Let’s replace those replica-politicians with more human humans. Every Greek Prime Minister has studied in the US. Both the current Prime Minister and the leader of opposition graduated from the same university. This cannot be a coincidence.
Has Papandreou gained your trust?
Not at all. The way power was passed over from one government to the other, got me thinking. It was far too easy. They realized, you see, that we were going bankrupt and this could not possibly happen with Karamanlis in power. People would go berserk. They needed someone with a more human profile to handle people’s reaction.
You mean it was all preplanned? Government and opposition are work bodies?
Obviously, yes! They have been playing good and bad cop for years. Now it is Papandreou’s turn to play good. Everyone was pushing towards this direction – his own party, the former Government, TV channels. It got a bit out of hand though, when, instead of Pasok barely making it to power, Papandreou, the party leader, got far more votes than initially expected and accidentally ridiculed Karamanlis.
Before the elections, Papandreou claimed that Greece has money, was that a lie?
100%. Of course he knew there was no money! Everyone did.
Nevertheless, if he doesn’t borrow from Europe and the IMF, Greece will go bankrupt. Salaries wont be paid, pensions neither. Try to get in his shoes for a minute. Could it be any different at this point?
Yes, what did I just tell you? Bankruptcy. It is far more dignified. Either way, nothing really functions properly. Take state hospitals, for example, do they function well?
Well, more or less, they do.
In this case, they would continue to function, even after we went bankrupt. We need solidarity. I believe that we would find the way to get back on our feet. We’d stand for each other. Those worse off would be the banks, big entrepreneurs and traditionally rich families – in other words, all those who govern us. It is not us, but themselves they try to save now.
Suppose we went bankrupt, wouldn’t we get out of control? Wouldn’t we be on the streets killing each other?
You watch too much TV!
Do you think there is still any hope for the parties of the Left?
No, they are through to me. All these years being so full of themselves. They sit on the side, repeating slogans. They dare not gain power, work with others, take decisions.
Were you disappointed by the party of Sinaspismos (left political party)?
Yes, I was hopeful at first, but after December riots I was disillusioned. They started to articulate something and left it to it.
Hold on, it was because of what they were saying then that they lost so many votes.
They should have gone all the way. They should have come out and say “Yes, we support the hooded rioters! Because they are right to cause havoc, because we all pushed them to their limits!”. Of course, they cannot say these things inside the Parliament. They ‘d lose their seats in a second. They didn’t dare to risk it. Shame really, for were they any braver, they ‘d gain respect in the people’s conscience. Even if this came with a cost. Their attitude would set a good precedent.
What do you think of LAOS? (far right political party)
If it wasn’t for the immigrants, this party would not exist. LAOS should raise a memorial in honor of the famished immigrants with the inscription written underneath: “To the unknown immigrant who made us a political party”…their leader, among others, dares to ask from the people to be more patient. Was he ever forced to be patient? Did he ever have to tighten his belt? The way I see it, his stomach, and those of many of his colleagues in politics, is getting fatter as we speak. In my dream-Parliament, the rule will be as follows: Fat men are not allowed to speak in times of crisis!
How do you feel about our new Minister of Education sending her own child to a private school?
Why wouldn’t she? In Greece, even the leader of the Communist Party is doing the same.
At the end of the day, isn’t it us who vote for them?
Indeed, we get the politicians we deserve. We are an idiotic, selfish society. We only care about our own car, our own child, our own business, ourselves…but guys, it doesn’t work this way! Do we have to hit bottom to see this? Some times I get to think how hypocritical people can be. Say, the whole of Greece knows that this prime minister or that mayor is homosexual. Everyone talks about it, at home, in coffee shops, everywhere. Now, if Mayor X or Prime Minister Y came out and said it, they ‘d be out of the political system in a day. No-one would vote for them. What I’m saying may come out as deliberately saucy, but it is symptomatic of our hypocrisy.
So you believe that a politician who is homosexual should come out and say it?
Absolutely! I see nothing wrong with it. Society should be able to accept such things. Especially when it’s common knowledge anyway. Then again, in this country nothing makes sense! From the citizens, to the prime minister, everything is based on a mutual contract, based on a lie.
What fills you with hope today?
Young people do. A beautiful new generation is growing up. Different to the previous one, brought up in that fake affluence of the Pasok era. Today’s 15–16-year-old kids are troubled. They grow up in a world empty of hope for the future, lacking comforts and they slowly come to realize how deprived they are. They kind of remind me of my generation, raised in the poverty of the 60s. It is under such circumstances that character is built.
What is left from December riots?
Look, December rioting was actually the first urban revolution. It had absolutely nothing to do with political parties. Given no alternative way to communicate their thoughts, kids took to the streets and played havoc. It is a shame really that it lead nowhere, no particularly organized demands came to surface. But I don’t think it has completely phased out. Some community oriented groups were formed after that – like the one running the park at Exarhia, or that other park at Patisia, you know, where our Mayor Nikitas Kaklamanis was trying to cut down the trees. Something is always better than nothing.
Recently, during Psarantonis’ concert at Irodion, you dedicated your appearance to those who lost their lives during the aid mission to Gaza.
Well, yes, I had to do something. I wasn’t in the mood for a concert anyway, because it was just three days after the incident.
What did you tell the audience?
Well, I said nothing new really, only that silence is complicity and I wont allow myself to be an accomplice. We sang “Na hen i thalassa vouna” (Had the sea mountains) in memory of the dead and for all those brave ones who left their little lives back home and tried to break that shameful embargo.
What do you have to say about the 4 employees who lost their lives in Marfin Bank during a protest?
What can I say? Psycho-paranoia. Does it make any sense to you?
Those people were killed by a Molotov thrown by some hooded rioters.
Yes, but who are really hiding behind those hoods? There could be anarchists or provokers. During December riots we all saw photos of hooded men making their way right out of the riot-police hordes. So what can I say? It was a murder nonetheless.
So, supposing it was this incident that had just taken place before the concert at Irodion, you ‘d still come out and say something about the death of those people, too?
Absolutely. I would just add that we cannot be sure of what had really happened.
Has the financial crisis affected your daily life?
Practically, no. I live alone, have no family, I know how to get by on 500 euros a month. I don’t really go out. My only expenses are either dinners with friends or a trip here and there.
You mean that your income has not decreased?
It wasn’t that big an income to begin with. We did 20 live shows last year, we’ll go for the same number this year.
The price of the ticket?
Around 15 euros. We ‘ve always been fighting for cheap tickets.
How does it make you feel that at your live shows with Episkeptes many people were forcing their entrance in order not to pay a ticket?
What can I say? I am neither upset nor happy.
I don’t believe it doesn’t bother you when you prepare something which demands time and money and some take it for granted.
There have been times that this has bothered me. For example, last year there was one concert of 5,000 people and we got nothing. We actually lost money! Same thing happened with many concerts in Crete…needless to say it was such incidents that lead to the break up of Episkeptes.
You mean Episkeptes broke up for financial reasons?
Well, yes. Either way, it was a project financially and psychologically unbearable. Imagine twenty people having to move around. We had to rent buses, equipment, book hotels, expenses were huge. A day’s pay was 400 euros at best. We had an orchestra that survived for as long as it did, only thanks to its members’ madness.
So this madness ended eventually?
Yes. The musicians were running around doing all sort of jobs to survive. We could not even make time to meet. We even had material for a second album but we kept postponing it. Therefore, we decided to change the initial big formation into something smaller, more relaxed, 4 to 5 people.
Will you keep the name?
No. Out of respect for the history of Episkeptes. We ‘ll find a new name.
How does it feel to be 50?
I don’t know, it’s fun.
Will you ever get a family of your own?
I don’t see this happening.
Is your libido getting lower?
(laughing) Luckily, not yet.
Are you still falling in love?
Yes. Listen, I do the same things I did when I was 25. I make music, I fall in love, I meet people, I get older, I reinvent myself. What changes after 50, if so, is that you start thinking more about time. It’s simple. One day you wont exist. And this day does not seem to be that far away anymore.
Does this scare you?
It excites me. It sort of gives me a nice vertigo.
Is it a coincidence that your girlfriends are always much younger than you?
Not at all a coincidence. I ‘ve always been hanging out with boys and girls younger than me. People of my own age bore me, unless they are like my friend Ntinos, who is as free and open, as to how he spends his days and nights, as I am. I feel that I identify more with young people’s way of thinking. It’s refreshing.
Their physique, too?
That goes without saying. Mind and body go together though. Young people seem beautiful because, in fact, they are more beautiful on the inside.
Do you ever feel lonely?
Not really, although I like to withdraw. It could be that I spend two-three weeks without seeing a soul.
Why is that?
To cleanse.
Is that when you write your lyrics?
Yes. I can write music with company, but not lyrics. You need perfect silence to listen to yourself.
Can you remember how you were 20-30 years ago?
Oh yes, I like to keep in touch with the old me. I want to remember all my steps. To be aware of how I got here.
Do you ever listen to your songs from your first band, Trypes?
Very seldom. Once I happened to hit on “Taksidiara Psihi” on line. I heard how child-like my voice was back then and it made me smile. Those first steps were technically incomplete, but they were sincere.
Do you ever look yourself in the mirror? I mean, literally.
Well, yes, sometimes.
Do you still make funny faces?
(bursts out laughing) … Yes!
As a child, did you feel special?
I felt strange. That I belonged somewhere else. Imagine, I grew up in a very poor family, but I had invented a story that I was of a noble descent.
You mean a real aristocrat?
(laughing) Yes! For years, I believed that my parents were not really my parents, that I came from a different background and that someone was testing me. And I was waiting for the day that my real parents would come and take me back.
Did you love your…poor parents?
Very much. And I felt compassion. They struggled to bring us up, things were really hard. My whole family was poor but crazy in the same time – have you watched “Time of the Gypsies”? Brothers quarreling, fighting over nothing, then making up, drinking together.
Do you believe in God?
I believe that life has a meaning. That the universe, the earth, our lives aren’t random…There is a cause for this all. Whether this is God or nature on its own, fighting to evolve…..
Does this influence your own life?
Of course.
In what way?
I am accountable to nature. To the trees, to my friends, to myself….
Define trees. You mean literally?
Sometimes literally, yes. I mean, when things get rough, I can sit by a tree and have a small chat. One can draw courage even from a tree.
(partially republished, in translation)
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